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Trône de Fer => IdF - Moine Noir => L'auberge du carrefour => Discussion démarrée par: Moine Noir le janvier 02, 2015, 18:18:46 pm

Titre: Politics of marriage
Posté par: Moine Noir le janvier 02, 2015, 18:18:46 pm
Source : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOzzPaPATFE
Titre: Politics of marriage
Posté par: Moine Noir le avril 19, 2016, 12:58:03 pm
Ci-dessous quelques notes sur la période renaissante italienne (XV siècle), laquelle peut être source d'insipiration pour les contrées les plus civilisées de Westeros (Bief) et d'Essos. Source : http://italianrenaissanceresources.com/units/unit-2/essays/husbands-and-wives/

Renaissance marriages were not simply personal matters; they were crucial to the network of alliances that underlay a family’s prosperity and prospects and that, in turn, formed the fabric of loyalties, affection, and obligation that supported civic institutions. Arranging a suitable match involved family, friends, associates, and political allies. In aristocratic families, marriages were a currency of dynastic and diplomatic exchange (as in the case of Bianca Maria Sforza)—and they were not much different among the merchant families of republican cities. In Florence, for example, Lorenzo de’ Medici, de facto leader of the ostensibly-republican state, considered negotiating marriages among supporters a worthwhile use of his time and energy. Marriage not only reflected order, it was a civilizing influence on which the whole of society depended.

Brides, especially in Florence, were typically much younger than grooms. Women as young as fourteen were often married to men in their thirties, partly to ensure the bride’s virginity. The age disparity had a number of consequences.

En 298, Alysanne a 11 ans, Tristifer 32. La jeune fille n'est pas majeure, héritière, en âge de procréer.

Although a husband and wife would have had little opportunity to know each other before their wedding, most marriages seem to have developed into companionable, if not loving, relationships. Wives had few individual rights, but many exercised considerable power within the family and household. Business took many husbands away for extended periods, necessitating that their spouses play an active role in family affairs.

The age disparity had a number of consequences.
1/ Young men were more or less free to visit prostitutes, who were semi-sanctioned in certain outlying districts.
2/ Relations between male youths and older men were regarded as fairly routine, particularly in humanist circles, in which ancient Greece provided a respected model.
3/ And, of course, the large number of very young brides corresponded to a large number of widows. Children of men who died remained in the man’s home and a part of his extended family; his wife did not. Instead, widows returned to the control of their own families, who now had to reassume their support or scramble to arrange a second dowry sufficient to attract another marriage proposal.

Sur le point 3/, Lady Victoria Bulwer (35 ans), la mère d'Alysanne et veuve de Jon Bulwer, est typiquement dans cette situation... :)

Sur les différences d'âges entre mariés, d'autres éléments viennent de TDF. On voit des disparités importantes, voire impressionnantes, et dans les deux sens :

Sansa Stark (286) / Tyrion Lannister (273)
Roose Bolton (260) / Walda Frey (283)
Margaery Tyrell (283) / Tommen Baratheon (291)
Walder frey (208) / Joyeuse Erongue (282)
Daenerys Targaryen (284) / Khal Drogo (268)
Lysa Tully (266) / John Arryn (220)
Edmure Tully (270) / Roslyn Frey (282)
Cersei Lannister (266) / Loras Tyrell (282) [planned]
Titre: Politics of marriage
Posté par: Moine Noir le janvier 01, 2018, 18:08:32 pm
1/ Tyrion Lannister and Sansa Stark (episode 3.8 "Second Sons")
2/ Edmure Tully and Roslin Frey (episode 3.9 "The Rains of Castamere")
3/ Margaery Tyrell and Joffrey Baratheon (episode 4.2 "The Lion and the Rose")
4/ Margaery Tyrell and Tommen Baratheon (episode 5.3, "High Sparrow")
5/ The small, secret wedding ceremony between Robb Stark and Talisa (episode 2.10 "Valar Morghulis").

Descriptif général de la cérémonie (7 étapes)

Step 1: First, the officiating septon recites several prayers to the audience, including readings from their holy text, The Seven-Pointed Star. During these initial prayers, the groom waits with the septon between the statues, while the bride waits outside of the room. This step takes some time and has never appeared directly on screen. It can be inferred from the prop books made for the septons in some of these scenes, which contain longer sets of prayers leading up to the part where the couple exchanges vows.

Step 2: Next, the bride is ceremonially presented to the groom, by being led into the room and down the aisle to him. The bride is typically led and presented by her father. In all observed cases, they walk down the aisle side by side, taking each other by the arm, with the father on the right and the bride on the left - then after being presented the couple stands in front of the septon with the bride still on the left and now the groom and the right. If the bride's father is dead, her brothers or other close male family member often lead her down the aisle instead (it is unclear what happens if a bride has no close male relatives and the current head of her family is her mother, etc.) After walking down the aisle, the father silently presents the bride to the groom - without exchanging any dialogue (unlike the wedding ceremony for the Old Gods of the Forest). Sometimes the bride wears a veil which is pulled back when her father presents her to the groom (Roslin Frey), but many brides simply forego wearing a veil (Tyrion and Sansa, Margaery and Joffrey, Margaery and Tommen). It is traditional for the bride to wear an ivory or white gown[2] (apparently to symbolize her purity/virginity), but many brides will forego this for more elaborate designs (e.g., Sansa was a virgin, and had a generally cream-colored gown, but decorated with elaborate colored embroidery).

Step 3: Now that the couple are together, the ceremony between them and the septon begins in earnest. The septon tells the groom, "You may now cloak the bride and bring her under your protection." The groom takes off the initial cloak that the bride has around her shoulders, displaying the sigil of her noble House, and puts a new cloak around her shoulders, bearing the sigil of the groom's House - symbolically bringing her under his protection and into his family. In some weddings the bride doesn't start out with her own cloak, but all include the step of the groom putting a cloak around her.

Step 4: The septon then proclaims, "My lords, my ladies, we stand here in the sight of gods and men to witness the union of man and wife. One flesh, one heart, one soul, now and forever."

Step 5: The couple holds hands as they stand side by side. The septon proceeds to tie a ribbon in a knot around their joined hands (literally "tying the knot"), which symbolizes their union. While tying the ribbon the septon says, "Let it be known that [Names and Houses of the bride and groom] are one heart, one flesh, one soul. Cursed be he who would seek to tear them asunder." The septon then announces, "In the sight of the Seven, I hereby seal these two souls, binding them as one for eternity." After he says this he unravels the ribbon - they remain metaphorically joined for the rest of their lives.

Step 6: he septon them commands, "Look upon each other and say the words", at which the bride and groom recite their vows, both of them speaking simultaneously. First, they list off the names of each of the Seven, in whose sight they are wedding: "Father, Smith, Warrior, Mother, Maiden, Crone, Stranger..." Immediately following this, still speaking simultaneously, they recite their main vows: the groom says "I am hers and she is mine. From this day, until the end of my days," while the bride at the same time says "I am his and he is mine. From this day, until the end of my days."

Step 7: Finally, after the vows are finished, the groom announces, "With this kiss, I pledge my love," and kisses the bride for the first time. They both then turn to face the audience, who applaud.


Following the ceremony, a wedding feast is held for all attendees. Among the nobility these can be quite large and extravagant, particularly for royal weddings. Traditionally a large Pigeon pie is served at the weddings of the nobility (commoners often cannot afford such a large meat pie, or sometimes not at all). The pie is meant to be large enough that every guest can have a slice. It is also traditional for the bride and groom to be the first to cut the cake and taste it.

Bedding ceremony

After some time, the traditional bedding ceremony may take place, a ribald practice in which the newlyweds are carried to the marriage bed to consummate their marriage by having sex for the first time (after everyone else leaves the room). The feast continues for the guests. The idea behind the bedding custom is that it helps to confirm that the marriage was consummated (it therefore seems to be more common among the nobility, who are more concerned about bloodlines). The bedding custom is not a requirement, however, and sometimes the couple simply skip it, and just quietly leave the feast for their wedding chambers where they will consummate the marriage that night.
Titre: Politics of marriage
Posté par: Moine Noir le juillet 27, 2018, 10:30:28 am
Source: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Customs

Marriage customs vary considerably between the lands and major faiths, i.e. followers of the old gods, the Faith of the Seven, R'hllor, and the Drowned God. All appear to be religious ceremonies between one man and one woman (who should not be more closely related than first cousins), involving the exchange of vows in the presence of particular sacred witnesses e.g. a septon, a heart tree,[26] or a priest/ess. It is followed by the feast, where the bride and groom eat and drink with everyone and finally, there is the bedding.

The Targaryens of Old Valyria allow marriage between brother and sister, which they brought to the Seven Kingdoms. This practice was never accepted or practiced by the population they ruled, however, to the extent that such unions are deemed ungodly and even accursed.

While marriages to women who have not reached their majority or even their first flowering have happened, they are rare. Moreover, bedding these girls before they are at the least flowered is seen as perverse. Generally, weddings are postponed until the girl has passed into maidenhood with her flowering, although betrothals may happen earlier.[27]

Marriage contracts are often arranged between noble houses, but they can be broken later.[28] Contracts are most often arranged on behalf of offspring or unmarried younger siblings. Although a lord cannot force the marriage if their dependent refuses to say the vows, this would carry serious consequences.[1] It is not uncommon for a noble maiden, betrothed early, to wed within the year following her first flowering.[29] Most women outside of Dorne take the names of their husbands, although not in all cases. If a woman is of higher birth or station than her husband, for example, she may use his name little, if at all.

Lords do not necessarily arrange marriages for their vassals or household knights, but they would be wise to consult him and respect his feelings when arranging their own matches.[1]

Eleven is seen as old enough for a girl to be betrothed, but marriage tends to wait a few years. It is not uncommon for a noble maiden, betrothed early, to wed within the year following her first flowering and normally expect to be married by twenty (smallfolk tend to marry a bit later). Noble boys of about seven or eight are often sent to other noble houses to be raised until they reach the age of majority. The boys serve as pages and squires, acquiring training in arms, law, and courtesy.